"My Mighty Quinn" - From Tics, Turbulence, Distraction and Disconnection to Calm, Confident and Connected"

S1 Episode 4: The Importance of Movement and Motor Development in Child Brain Health - Lucia speaks with Dr Josh Madsen

• The Brain Health Movement • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Join Lucia as she delves into the world of child brain health, bringing you expert insights and empowering stories. In each episode, Lucia invites specialists, like Dr. Josh Madsen, a neurodevelopmental disorder expert, to share his knowledge and experiences. 

Together, they explore the critical role of motor development in a child's overall brain health.

Discover the three key aspects highlighted by Dr. Josh - addressing primitive reflexes, developing balance centres, and enhancing eye tracking abilities. Gain valuable insights into understanding motor milestones and early detection of developmental issues. Learn how parents can become the best therapists through consistency, intention, and discipline in implementing exercises at home.

Through real-life testimonials, witness the transformative power of dedicated efforts and exercises in children's lives. Lucia and her guests are committed to empowering parents with accessible information, bridging the gap between science and practical application. Tune in to become part of a movement dedicated to nurturing thriving and balanced young minds.

Embark on a journey of knowledge, inspiration, and support, and be part of The Brain Health Movement today!

Key Takeaways: 

Primitive Reflexes, Balance Centres, and Eye Tracking:

  • Dr. Josh highlights three key aspects for optimal brain development.
  • Addresses primitive reflexes, develops balance centres, and enhances eye tracking abilities.

Understanding Motor Milestones:

  • Dr. Josh emphasises the importance of observing and understanding a child's motor milestones.
  • Provides a timeline for expected developmental milestones in the first year of life.

Early Detection of Motor Development Issues:

  • Parents should be vigilant about potential signs of delayed or underdeveloped motor skills in their child.
  • Early detection allows for timely intervention and support.

Parent as the Best Therapist:

  • Dr. Josh emphasises that parents play a crucial role in their child's development.
  • Consistency, intention, and discipline are key factors in implementing developmental exercises at home.

Benefits of Consistent Effort:

  • Consistent exercises lead to physical, psychological, and cognitive improvements in children.
  • Dr. Josh explains the cyclical nature of development - improved motor skills lead to further brain development.

Personal Testimony:

  • Lucia shares the transformation in her son Quinn's life due to dedicated efforts and exercises.
  • Quinn's

Resource Links:

Lucia Silver:

Welcome back to The Brain Balance movements introductory podcast series my Mighty Quinn, from tics, turbulence, distraction and disconnection to calm, confident, coordinated and connected. In this episode, we once again joined forces with a fantastic Dr. Joshua Madson from his clinic, infinity functional urology in Iowa, and delve further into the world of brain health and child brain development. In our previous conversation with Dr. Josh, which I encourage you to listen to a head of this podcast, we looked at some of the necessary foundations for healthy brain development. Starting simply with the basic requirement for oxygen and food, as well as the critical the vital need for the specific stimulation provided by movement. We started to look at why these factors are so necessary and how they can and are being compromised in today's world, to the detriment and disservice of our children. To be clear from the onset, in my conversations with all of the neuroscientists and child brain development experts, I've scoured the planet to find for you. We are working from the specific premise that neuro diverse labels such as autism or ADHD, ASD, ADHD, ADHD, OCD, odd, dyslexia, dyspraxia, ticks, Tourette Syndrome, anxiety and more, are not what the public domain is typically perceiving them to be. They are all labels given for a variety of symptoms. But the symptoms are not the underlying problem. Their lack of proper brain development is the problem. They are all symptoms of a root cause, which is a delay or lack of proper brain development in specific areas. Typically, these symptoms are all born of a scenario where left and right hemispheres of the brain are unable to develop symmetrically, or areas of the brain are unable to connect or mature efficiently. But parents this is actually great news, because we are not talking about brain damage or injury that is unchangeable, immutable or irreversible. These immaturity these delays and imbalances in simple terms can be addressed. And for those of you who have downloaded my free guide, or listen to my episode on the crucial brain facts you need to know you will now have some understanding of why this is possible. So I'd like to repeat and share again, that neuroscientists have proven over the last several decades that the brain is quite plastic, meaning it can change both physically and chemically, if given the proper stimulation, and this ability to change is called neuroplasticity. This means that through a tailored programme, of physical, sensory, and sometimes academic exercises and movements, that troubled areas can be targeted and addressed. It's also important to look at nutrition, as dietary problems are common with these developmental delays. And of course, there can be family based environmental causes to deal with that studies strongly suggest are also linked to the problem. I would like today's conversation with Dr. Josh, therefore, to be about addressing the root causes of specific symptoms, so that we can use labels when they're useful. Instead of allowing them to sometimes make some of us feel overwhelmed, stigmatised, hopeless, and confused. The seemingly finite labels can also give rise to a feeling of, well that's that then my child is x, or my child is diagnosed as y and that's final, the end of the road, then we'll accept this and not explore them many areas that could alleviate, and in many cases, totally reverse the struggles your child is facing. So what do I mean by symptoms? I'm going to now share a list. It's not meant to be an exhaustive list of symptoms. But if your child is diagnosed, undiagnosed, struggling, or you simply feel something's not quite right, something's just a little out of sync. Then you may identify with a few, none or many of the following. So here goes listening. They have poor muscle tone. They have a poor gait. That's an awkward run or an awkward, an awkward walk. They have poor body awareness. This is the awareness and control of the position and movement of their body parts in relation to muscle joint. So it's how they recognise where their body is in space. You may have heard that those three types of body awareness is interoceptive, proprioceptive, and spatial awareness. They have poor posture, that could be when they're seated as well as standing. They have poor gross, and fine motor skills. And to be clear, gross of the big whole body movements like running, jumping, walking, well, fine motor skills would be Tying shoelaces, eating, getting dressed writing. They have poor balance, rhythm and coordination. They may have poor eye coordination, poor social skills, they may have abnormal unregulated emotional reactions, like disproportionate anger or emotional outbursts that come all of a sudden out of nowhere. They may have a sensitive sensory system, this could be to noises, smells, lights, textures, and so forth. They could have a compromised immune system, immature digestion or digestive issues, allergies and food sensitivities. And quite often they will experience academic struggles, and poor cognitive awareness. And these the symptoms that most of us associate with learning and behavioural disorders, and the ones that we as parents and professionals focus and worry about the most. And those are those five primary cognitive skills of reading, learning, remembering, logical reasoning, and the big one paying attention. And finally, they would have a persistence of primitive reflexes, that you've heard me mention these several times. And by the time I'm finished with you, you'll understand how pivotal vital critical they are. And you'll be just like me thinking how how, how could I not have known about these when I was well pregnant? Please take a moment to perhaps reflect on these symptoms and your child and maybe note them down for yourself if any seem resonant. It is very, very common for coinciding symptoms to exist. ADHD and OCD, tics poor posture and attentional issues, autism, emotional regulation and digestive issues. We think of ADHD as an attentional and regulation problem. We think of autism as a communication and socialisation problem, and Dyslexia as a reading problem, only they are not. There is no question that these skills may indeed be lacking, that this is not the problem. They are only symptoms of the real problem. And many, if not all of which can be addressed with the exercises and protocols we are championing and that neuroscientists like Dr. Josh are having such formidable success with and this is what the Brain Balance movement is driving attention to. So rather than labels like dyslexia, let's talk about why there might be reading delays or challenges. Rather than ADHD. Let's talk about why there may be challenges to attention, concentration and emotional regulation. And rather than autism, let's explore why things may be a little out of sync socially. And rather than dyspraxia, we can look at why issues present relating to coordination and balance. So this is the perfect moment to segue into one of my favourite people on the planet right now. Dr. Josh Madsen. Dr. Josh, all the way from Iowa. How are you today?

Dr Josh Madsen:

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Again, I appreciate it. Super excited to be here. One of my favourite topics

Lucia Silver:

tastic I can't wait to to listen to you again. So how am I doing with my mission to bridge this cavernous gap between science and parents? And, and what may I ask for your initial responses to the explanations and revelations I'm sharing with my listeners today.

Dr Josh Madsen:

The sad truth is so many parents don't understand the how the brain develops, and you're bringing that to them in a very easy, simplistic way for them to understand and starting with the foundational pieces, which is really important because, you know, like let's say a kid, or a parent has a child that's their child is diagnosed with ADHD, well, they may not understand that it's their frontal lobe it's involved in that's also going to impact all these other systems, and all these other things and create all these other symptoms that they're experiencing. And so it's really important understand what's actually going on with the child and not just saying, Oh, they have this label because, you know, a few more years down the line. They have six more labels, they have ADHD, they have OCD. They have anxiety and then there are all these medications, when if they were to understand the root underlying causes of what's going on, those things could have been addressed, and a lot of those symptoms could have been improved, and therefore a lot of those medications could have been decreased or maybe not even needed at all. So,

Lucia Silver:

right, it's, um, it's huge, right? I mean, not not only what we're going to get onto, which is where labelling is not useful, but these problems escalate. So you're dealing with one thing and your parents are going off here, we've got a diagnosis, we know it's that let's just like kind of accept the diagnosis. And then as you say, you've got compounded issues. It's like, oh, my god, now there's ticks oh my god, now there's OCD. Now there's so it's so important to not sit on your laurels, just because you've been given a diagnosis, right?

Dr Josh Madsen:

In certain scenarios, that diagnosis might be helpful, for example, for in school, maybe that child is gonna get some more special attention now, or, you know, maybe they're gonna go into as they're gonna have a special tutor or assistant or that type of thing, which is very helpful. But when it starts just compounding and adding and adding and adding and adding, then that's when parents get overwhelmed. They say, my kid has all of these issues. Well, in actuality, all of those issues could have just came from one area of the brain or one issue in the brain or a couple of different areas, the brain or they could have done some simple stuff to when I say simple, but I you know, just as well as I do, it's a lot of work. But the they could have done certain things in a certain way to help that brain can mature more efficiently and add a lot less issues. And still can if they're having those issues.

Lucia Silver:

And still can and still can absolutely. So we both want to get away from from labels, not labels, per se, but labels were then helpful. Indeed, as you've said, certain labels will draw attention to additional support that's needed for a child will explain some things to a worried parent, but they may also stop teachers complaining about a child's behaviour if there's actually been some kind of diagnosis rather than saying each day that your child is bad. There may be some better way of employing compassion and understanding. So we want to get away from labels that we employ the ADHD a DD ASD, OCD, odd, I mean, just listening to them, gives you a feeling of absolute, doesn't it and understand that we're dealing with with one problem, as you say, or a root cause. And in one of your own publications, Dr. Josh, you wrote, it's quite remarkable to improve a child's reading skills without focusing solely on reading itself. And instead, you report that the extraordinary improvements with one well, frankly, hundreds of children through your clinic, coming from the work with the exercises and programmes that were championing those results were accomplished by developing the foundational systems necessary for reading. So I'd love for you to explain to my listeners what exactly you mean by the foundational systems and why it plays into how we are perhaps unhelpfully, diagnosing and labelling conditions and challenges at the moment. Yeah.

Dr Josh Madsen:

So let me do it in a matter of like a case, for example, it makes it a lot easier to understand. So typically, when children come into me, they have two different primitive reflexes. One is called an asymmetrical tonic neck reflex. And that's a reflex that should go at six months of life, before the child starts to crawl that reflex if it doesn't develop, and it has a lot of other symptomatology that can go along with it. But if it doesn't develop, when it comes to the eyes, a lot of times you'll see skipping in the middle of their vision as they track from side to side. So if that child still has that reflex, and they're trying to track from side to side, their eyes will jump and skip in the middle their vision, which can make it very hard to keep their eyes on track, and follow, you know, a line appropriately and it can make it quite challenging to read. Another reflex is called the symmetrical tonic neck reflex. And this should go in eight months of life. And it plays a lot into the ability for the eyes to converge or come in together and go out together and track up and down. So for example, if a child can't converge their eyes all the way in together, they actually get double vision, and they don't. And a lot of times, they don't realise they have double vision because they've had it their whole life. And so not only are they trying to read and they're reading a line, they're either jumping and skipping, but they're also getting double vision at times, which it can appear that there's, you know, there's literally two different ways to have the same word on the screen, or it might just look like the pages moving because their eyes are switching back and forth. So number one, you have to get rid of those primitive reflexes. And then number two, you have to develop their balance centres so that our eyes have a stable foundation to work off of and then their eyes need to be developed and be able to track appropriately. And this is something that isn't like it for example where I live, there's only like three eye doctors that I know of that I've been able to find that even looked at how the eyes move and track together and, and how they function together. And so those are the foundational systems and talking about we need to have primitive reflexes gone, their balance centres need to be developed, for their eyes have a stable foundation to work off of and in their eyes need to be able to track appropriately. So they can follow the words online, and they can jump from word to word or letter to letter appropriately and not over, you know, go pass it or, you know, jump short of it and have to make multiple different eye movements. Those are foundational systems for learning. And they're not necessarily cognitive skills, but they are movement based foundational skills that need to be in place before their cognitive skills can actually develop and learn. And all those things that I just talked about should develop really in the first two years life lifetimes,

Lucia Silver:

right? No, and they don't, and it's like building blocks that have to go in the right order, the next series won't kick in and be built if the foundation aren't in place. So the development required for reading or learning in general, to take us back to this idea of these primitive reflexes primarily occurs through motor and movement development in the in those early, early, early years, and those first couple of years, even even early Yeah, so we can facilitate efficient learning. And by that we mean reading, learning, paying attention and more by eliminating some of these developmental or primitive reflexes, and by enhancing a child's balance and eye tracking abilities. So there's plenty that can be done to help without actually focusing on reading, per se, or attention, or what's going on academically, it's about coming back to some of these absolute foundations that that were missed, and primarily missed through a lack of, in most cases through a lack of movement at some point in time. So we will, we'll move on to to look at some other systems as well. But But first, just before we do as a premise, because some parents have asked me, How can we be sure that there is nothing more sinister happening than a lack of brain maturity, or just these primitive reflexes, in other words, that we need to be clear about when perhaps we can't expect to see any improvement.

Dr Josh Madsen:

So a lot of times, when kids come to our office, you know, they've already had MRIs, they've already had CT, they've already had all those things to rule out major brain injuries, you know, that type of stuff. Most of the issues, I would say that kids that come into our office, or that we work with, from around, you know, around the world at home to they can make substantial improvements. I mean, even some of the most rare genetic disorders we see that are neuro degenerative, meaning that that child's brain is degenerated, degenerating actively, they can still improve. So a child that has a relative, a brain that is able to adapt, and which about every humans is and able to respond and get activated can improve in some way or another. You know, there may be some limitations, like a child that has a genetic disorder, there may be some limitations, a child that had a brain injury there, you know, there may be some limitations there. But what I find is that those kids aren't even close to that, those limits, and there's a lot of room for improvement, no matter what's going on, in making their life much, much better, much easier for them.

Lucia Silver:

That's, that's wonderful to hear. And so what I'm hearing is that the best starting point is with the primitive reflexes, there's no harm done by assessing and testing for them. And there are so very many benefits to inhibiting and shutting them down if they are found to still be active. Oh, yeah.

Dr Josh Madsen:

You know, we do a lot of stuff with patients and you know, different therapies and things like that. But if I could only do one thing, and one thing only, it'd be to work on primitive reflexes, because that makes the biggest change for people. The, for kids, especially in the fastest, it makes really significant changes within a matter of, you know, weeks to maybe a short amount of months, you know, you can make some really significant cool changes there and really help those kids out.

Lucia Silver:

And we're emphasising, aren't we, Dr. Josh, that the earlier you get to this, the better. It's not that nothing can be done later in life. But, you know, I have I have so many parents with teenagers with behavioural issues, and they're like, is it too late? Can we still do something they're screaming, they're emotional, they're ready or the emotional, the regulations and all of those sorts of things are just kind of out The box, you know, can we still do something Dr. Josh,

Dr Josh Madsen:

the brain is always neuroplastic, even into, you know, late adulthood, the brain can change. And we know that there's plenty of research to support that, and it consistently change in but the in those synapses can get healthier, and they can function more efficiently with the right environment. But from like a true structural brain change, we know that like the white matter of the brain can change up to about eight or 10 years old, and the grey matter can make a true structural change up to about 18 years of life. So that means that the structure of the brain may not be able to change past a certain point. But the efficiency or the plasticity of the brain still can change. So there is there's two different components there. But yes, you can still make changes later in life, it may take longer, it may take more work, it may be more challenging than when they're young at three, or four or five or six, you can make much bigger impact much faster. But as long as you're willing to put the work in, you can still make some very significant changes.

Lucia Silver:

Good. I'm very happy to hear that and so will the parents listening. So you know, like, like the rest of the world. It feels I had no idea that addressing primitive reflexes could bring such transformative changes. I thought with Quinn, for example, that this might have been a mere coincidence. Yeah, I was unaware that such profound changes were even possible. So perhaps here we can focus in with you on a specific case, like my 10 year old son, Quinn. I'm all for specific examples, as I think it helps our minds understand how to apply the science, we're learning to specific symptoms and struggles that you may be able to relate to as a parent listening now, hopefully, you've heard the earlier podcast where Quinn shares himself and in some detail, the amazing positive transformation he's enjoying. If not, I urge you to listen to it first. So that you have a context for what Dr. Josh and I will discuss now. So Dr. Josh, if we take a look at Quinn symptoms, which I'm just going to list out quickly. He had a mighty tic, did my Mighty Quinn, he was doubled over head to the floor, hands behind him one leg in the air and flapping like a chicken. And this was becoming very, very frequent. He had a weak posture. Slumping is both standing and sitting and kind of awkward gait both when he walked and when he ran. As a consequence, no doubt and lack of coordination and balance. He's got some still we're working on some attention and concentration issues that are improving hugely, you know, find it difficult to organise himself and prioritise. And he has some challenges with minor motor skills, tying laces and that sort of thing. And it's from time to time although nothing evidence anymore, but some emotional regulation and angry outbursts. So if I look at someone like Quinn, Dr. Josh, it seems to me he could have easily been labelled with autism, tics, Tourette's, dyspraxia, ADHD, they're all there. And this goes to show how, in some cases unhelpful and sometimes misleading, a mountain of muddled labels might have been and had I not found the scientific truths and intervened, I could have just gone. Oh, nevermind. And everybody was just telling me, his tickle go away. Don't worry is it's cute, it's unusual, it's unique. It's a superpower. So judge, it's a big elephant I'm handing over here, but dip it dip in as you wish, and as you feel is most helpful to our parents listening. But if I could hand over to you with this, this kind of list of symptoms, to start to explain how differently we might understand a child like when with the symptoms and what we might be doing step by step to help him if that's not to bigger question to land on your Yeah,

Dr Josh Madsen:

yeah. And, to go on top of that, you know, you're saying about the the labels and the ADHD there, and ticks and all those types of things. You know, that's just the start of what I ended up seeing in my practice is that and then, you know, from his, his podcasts that I listened to, you know, he talked about how he was socially. You know, other kids didn't, you know, want to interact with them as much and he didn't want to or wasn't able to interact as much because he would be in a tick. And then, you know, so not only do you have the whole side of the medical diagnosis side, but then you have the psychiatric side that ends up I end up seeing in the practice of, well, now they're depressed because they don't have friends and they can't, you know, they're not able to interact with other kids and all the social anxiety and that type of stuff that ends up getting labelled on as well. So those labels really aren't helpful, because inconsiderate well, I shouldn't say that. Those labels don't create the true picture of what's going on. So like when I look at his symptom list, what I can tell you is that his frontal lobes so the formulary, your brain is what It helps to regulate the rest of the brain eventually. So it would happen. That's why it's one of the later areas the brain to develop, the frontal lobes develop and they help regulate in their brain deep inside of the brain called their basal ganglia. When our basal ganglia gets dysregulated, your basal ganglia is what turns on and off muscles that appropriate timing turns on and off cognitive functions at appropriate timing or neck gets dysregulated, you get abnormal motor tics or motor movements or vocal tics or cognitive thoughts or cognitive loops happen. So you constantly think about the same thing over and over again, well, there's a pathway from your frontal lobe called the frontostriatal pathway. And that inhibits or shuts down that basal ganglia. And I know those are a lot of big words there, but simply think of it as your frontal eye or is your brain or what should have what should be able to shut this down. If your frontal lobe isn't developed, that's when you start getting a lot of these symptoms, especially in that's why your frontal lobes are highly associated with ADHD and cognitive skills. But that is a an issue there. But we got to talk about what builds the frontal lobes. And what builds the frontal lobes is lower brain structures. So for example, when we see a weak posture, and an awkward gait, and lack of coordination, those are all signs and symptoms of our cerebellum not functioning well, which is an area that sits in the back of our brain, it has more neurons in the rest of the brain combined, because it coordinates everything in the brain, it coordinates everything in your body, so it looks smooth and efficient. Well, if your cerebellum isn't functioning well, and you're not having enough input from your muscle tone, you're not having enough input from your balance centres. That's what fires into your higher cortex or your frontal lobes help it to eventually develop. So if you don't move enough, you don't, you don't get rid of your primitive reflexes so that you can move appropriately and coordinated wise, if your balance centres don't develop, and your eye tracking centres don't develop all of these systems fire into our cerebellum and in fire into our higher cortex to get that to develop. So if your frontal cortex isn't developed, now, you're gonna see a lot of these symptoms that you're experiencing. And that's why as you've worked on primitive reflexes to retrain his muscle tone, and his and then he worked on retraining his balance centres and eye tracking stuff. That's why you've seen such a significant impact is because now he's getting feedback to his frontal lobes. And that's it goes along the same rate as as his attention improves, his, he's going to be able to regulate those tics as well the same time is because your attention on your attentional areas sit in a very similar the brain, your frontal lobes. So the that movement is really what starts building that those areas, the brain. And that's why also, lack of coordination, abnormal gait is what abnormal movement is one of the most consistent comorbid conditions that comes along with all neurodevelopmental disorders. So whether it's autism, ADHD, dyslexia, they, they all have, that's when like a hallmark that goes along with it is they all have motor and coordination. And it's because the motor and coordination is what is really the underlying root cause of a lot of issues and maybe not all issues but a lot of them

Lucia Silver:

so once again, we used Doctor justice, there's an analogy which which I like to use a lot, which is it's like expecting the lights to go on in a house where you haven't even built the infrastructure in the and the wiring, it's like expecting higher executive functions to kick in when you haven't done the foundation work. So if we if we sort of wind that back, a lot of the signs are there. Had I known for example, with Quinn, what you're saying is it would have been very apparent early on that he had weak muscle development that his motor you know that the motor the foundation, motor skills were not happening, there was a lack of cord and that would have given an early indication which we might have seen, he might have, it might have been shown through when he crawled at what time he called at what time he walked up just thinking of parents going oh my god. So how will I know if my child you know if I can't test the primitive reflexes just now and we're going through it what what are those signs, those early signs of the motor skills being undeveloped or delayed in some way?

Dr Josh Madsen:

Yep. So you need to look at primarily looking at their motor milestones. And I'm not a huge fan of the new new ones that came out recently because I don't think they're correct at all. But the that's my own personal belief. But the what should happen in my my mind, and what I've seen in my practice, is a child should start number one, they should be able to lift their head up they should be a role in the Um, first like four or so months of life, maybe five. And then what should happen is they should start Omicron, right around six to seven months of life, then they should start cross crawling right around seven to eight months of life. And they should crawl all the way up till their basically their first birthday and walk right around 12 months, give or take a month there. And if that sequence doesn't happen, that's a big issue. So like, for example, if they walk at nine or 10 months, that tells you that they probably didn't develop their asymmetrical tonic neck reflex appropriately, or one of their primitive reflexes appropriately, if they never army crawled, if they never crawled appropriately, if they didn't crawl symmetrically. And they maybe brought, you know, brought a leg around, called like a bear, scoot around on their bottom, those are all signs that their motor system is not developing appropriately. And then from there, they should walk right around right around their first birthday really close to it, you don't want to see 1516 months in this is why I'm not a huge fan of that new recommendations, because number one, it says they don't even need to crawl, which is horrid. And number two, they say they don't have to walk until 18 months. And I understand why they're doing that. And that's it's not for the software, honestly, it's not for the benefit of the child, it's more for the purposes of the parent, or the providers not getting so overwhelmed and over diagnosing kids with you know, developmental issues. But the it now if like, let's say a child isn't walking until 18 months, you just missed out on six months of therapy that you could have done and got that kid, you know, to to walk much earlier and be much closer to where they should be now they're six months delayed at 18 months, versus they could be two months delayed at 14 months. And now you can work on catching them back up. But say not there. So then what you should start seeing is their motor skills starting to develop much more efficiently between one and three years old, you know, that they should be learning to you know, go upstairs jumping off of stuff, they should be, you know, have really good motor skills and the better their motor skills start to get in those those years, the better their language development starts to get. So as your motor skills improve, your language will improve and easy sign to see if you know and to really understand how a child's motor system is developing is if they're not starting to talk and talk quite a lot, right, you know, after their first birthday. That's there's probably a pretty good reason why and because your motor system needs to develop for your speech motor centres to develop. So if your motor system isn't developing your speech, motor centres can't develop. And a lot of times it has to do with their their motor development.

Lucia Silver:

Right. And then after that comes balance and then the fire for that higher function. Yeah, it's really a step, step by step. You can't leapfrog over one and expect the next to divert health. Yeah,

Dr Josh Madsen:

yep. And your brain is an amazing compensator. You can compensate for so much. It's really quite amazing. But there's always signs and there's always any efficiencies, you know, you're talking about your the cute little habits they may have, or whatever it may be, well, that could just be a sign that those assumptions aren't developing.

Lucia Silver:

Yes. And to be clear, as well, it's early as well as late because that's come as a surprise to quite quite a lot of parents that I've spoken to. They've said, Oh, no, no, no, my child what really spoke really soon or, and actually, that's just as much of an indication once again, the brain is extremely exact in how it unfolds and how it builds. I don't know how much tolerance or variation is allowed for want of a better word. As you say this, this document that's just been published by the certain organisations is giving huge latitude for late walking and late talking. But it's becoming increasingly evident that that is at least a sign of something that parents can check. So we'll be talking about this again, in our specific later episodes and potentially even in in the courses that will be signposting you towards because there will be many things that need to be looked at and questions that will come about. My one year old child is not doing this. How do I get them to do it when they're just a toddler? You know, Quinn is 10 years old and I can give him very specific exercises and movements to do but what do you do when it's a baby? So we appreciate this will give rise to many questions for those of you who are listening with with babies right now even those of you who are pregnant and thinking lucky I'm thinking lucky you you're hearing this now, good and early so that you can be prepared. I personally think Josh we should be handed something as pregnant mothers, fathers and families that shows you when those milestones are it feels like You kind of have to go along and kind of find that information yourself a lot of the time, right? I mean, I wouldn't know. And, and when you put that question that when we went through questions on Quinn, what age did he crawl what age? You know, by the time your child's 10, you don't know anymore. I don't know, when when I remember that they didn't seem to be any outstanding issues. But, you know, maybe there could have been some sites some some indications, then that I would have known to look out for we also had a very traumatic birth, had I known that that could cause certain issues around his development, I could have done something but all of this now it's retrospective. And the work, Dr. Josh, that you and I want to do in awareness raising is to, to implement this preventatively rather than sitting here now and me saying to look at this list of symptoms that my, my beautiful boy has had, I would have loved to be having this conversation with you with Quinn, you know, still pregnant and knowing that I could look out for these beforehand.

Dr Josh Madsen:

Yeah, yeah. And I have a short course, like maybe an hour course, as well that we can post a link to that just walk them through what should happen in the first year of life. And if these things aren't developing, like, in the meantime, until we build something a little bit more in depth, but at least that'll give them somewhere to start. And I actually made that for my, my patients, because I had so many that didn't understand the importance of these things should be happening in the first year of life. And, you know, I'd say, hey, they're, they're nine months, and they're still not crawling. This is something you know, the be a new patient. They're nine months, they're still not crawling, this is something that should have been addressed three months ago, you know, and, and they just had no, no clue. No understanding. And so, the that's what I made it for, but

Lucia Silver:

yeah, but yeah, 100% I mean, it's Thank you. I mean, that's so valuable. And and I'm sure you have you have, as you say parents coming in with a child that's having behavioural issues, and they're pregnant with their second so you're thinking Oh, my goodness, we've got one case here where we've got to kind of undo and do up and re hardwire and help this help this little kid get over the issues and and Mum, please understand now moving forwards that let's let's avoid this happening happening a second time because you do have the power you do do do have the power to to affect change. Which Yeah, I think that's the first part of this is to really understand that we can can can do something about this. And I'm just empowering parents all the time to know that this is this is possible. So yeah, so for the record and through addressing these foundational deficits that Dr. Josh was talking about with the exercises I have implemented at home by myself with Quinn. The transformation has been extraordinary. So yes, my last question to you today. Dr. Josh, do you believe that parents at home can get results just like when and I have

Dr Josh Madsen:

Yeah, I mean you guys are a perfect example it comes down to the right words that implementation there we go the you know, I know you guys do exercises every single day and you do multiple times a day and consistently and just like anything in life if you want to develop anything whether it's a business a you know a relationship but it takes consistency and it takes working at it every single day. And when it comes to the brain it takes even more so the in I've seen seeing the pre and post videos I've seen the the the pre and now the post exam findings and that those changes are truly remarkable like the in not seeing other people can't get them there. They're very very very great changes you know, those are changes that we look for in the office that you know that they do take time to develop but that brain is truly developing neurologically developing which is very great to see especially at home. And we have patients that you know we work with at home and they have amazing changes as well and just you know, working through a lot of stuff at home but yes, you can make significant changes at home and I always tell the parents the best therapist is the parent like the best therapist is the person who's with them every day. They may need some guidance but that they can implement developmental activities throughout their everyday life you know in between you know before the food before they you know say prayers at night before they do SF their homeschool do a subject in school, they do a set of exercises, you know, whatever it may be, they just link it to a bunch of stuff and then they are getting exercise in multiple times a day. And that is going to be that's going to make the biggest changes out of you know anything because that's someone that's can, someone that's there, solely focused on one child elbow and are on that child's development and can put in the necessary amount of time and work to make it happen.

Lucia Silver:

Yep, Yep, absolutely. And that that is so helpful. What I'm hearing loud and clear is your intention, implementation, discipline, consistency. You know, that may sound scary, but we never achieved anything in life that mattered without that. So that's what I did with Quinn. You can hear how complex and compounded and varied Quinn's symptoms and struggles were. And you have seen and heard firsthand exactly the result of working with primitive reflexes and balance centres and eye tracking. And we are continuing we are still going because we're still building his strength and building his vestibular and balance centres and still seeing results and Quinn himself. And this, I encourage you to hear your child will start to feel the benefit, just like we do when we go to the gym or eat well sleep well or don't drink for a while we feel the benefit. And we know how good it is. For us. Well, Quinn was exactly the same. He's now got into football, he couldn't play football before, at all, to left feet. Now he's excited by that he's excited by the results of his hard work. And that in turn is inspiring him and it's giving him more power to commit and be disciplined. So it's a great tool for life, isn't it just to stick at it?

Dr Josh Madsen:

Yeah, yep. And then on top of that, then you get those cycles, like he's gonna get the psychological benefits of now he's improved his motor systems now for he can get involved with sports, and he can make friends in that sport, and he can. And then he's moving a tonne and doing more and more and more complex skills. And then he's further developing his brain because the more complex our movement gets, the more complex development happens in the brain. So it's like a perpetual, forward moving process of once you get this system started and going in the right direction, it keeps developing if they keep using it.

Lucia Silver:

Yeah, it's our favourite. Our favourite word in the house at the moment is upskill upskill. Say all the time. It's your point. And I have to tell you, Dr. Josh, I picked Quinn up from his first day back at school yesterday. And he said, Mommy, I had the best day at school. I'm making so many friends. Everyone wants to play football with me. Everyone's talking to me. i No one was bullying me. I didn't wiggle all day. I had such a good day. And I just, I'm gonna, I'm gonna cry. But that but honestly, what more what more could you wish for? What an answer to my prayers? And, and and results from hard work is that? Yeah, amazing. I mean, it's just just incredible. So I have promised to bridge the gap of science and parents in relation to brain health and the specific challenges children with neurological disorders are facing as best I can. And I believe that the true mothership is information. And I hope that you'll agree that Dr. Josh has armed us again today with a huge amount of enlightening information that empowers us through explanation and revelation on our journey towards transformation in our children. All of this highlights the importance of motor development in laying the correct foundations without which none of the higher executive functions Learning Reading, balance, attention, concentration can develop fully or efficiently. The fundamental premise of this programme, and what has been working for Quinn revolves around three key aspects addressing primitive reflexes, developing his balance centres, enhancing his eye tracking abilities. If you identify with and feel supported by some of the information I brought you today with the help of the fantastic Dr. Josh then I encourage you to continue to learn with us and sometime soon I know you'll want to embark on this yourselves with your children. And when you do, I'll be right here with my team to support you. Please listen to this again to ensure you digest all of its goodness. My heartfelt thanks to you Dr. Joshi, again for sharing your expertise and insights. I know you share my breathless passion and dedication to get this vital and empowering knowledge to families and your work and service is important beyond measure. Welcome